The moment you've all been waiting for...our second episode! Where we discuss the movie Star Trek Nemesis.
We discuss the weak plot of Nemesis...which is so weak we start talking Star Wars movies, Stargate and The Mandalorian! Also, we welcome our new fourth host Keith Justice!
We're now in the home stretch with only 17 days to go until Star Trek Picard! We're committed to having a new episode every week up until and including the entire run of Picard!
All right. Welcome, everybody to the second episode of therefore hosts. I am one of your host, Michael.
Hey, there I am, Jonathan. Just average J.
Hey, guys, Sabrina's back. You can find me as wet, get gaming pretty much anywhere. And, uh, unfortunately, our dear friend Heiress, um, had to depart. We had some times own issues. But my dear friend Keith is here to replace it. Well, not replace him in our hearts up, say, but in the sound file. Thank you.
Hey, everyone, I'm Keith Justice. If you're listening to this and used to listen to my podcast, H j you because you and beg me to podcasts again. This is me doing again. But not for what I used to do it for. And if you don't know me, um, I used to run a website called Hinge Injustice. That was about Japanese live action SciFi that most of you guys know of his power Rangers. But that's just a tiny facet of the main things that Japanese slight centric. So that's why.
Okay, but why do you like Star Trek you?
Um I have been into Star Trek since, like the beginning to Ogi fans I apologize because I did not like, Oh, gee, Star Wars, Star Trek.
Thanks. I got fired. You're like It's so
it's I It's so raggedy looking and
in like I was forcing myself, and I was like, I get something's going on here. But then, like the movies hit and like, that's when I started looking like Star Trek SciFi like the motion picture is my favorite one. And then you know that there's hot and cold. Oh, yeah, I also go back for a motion picture in 80 of week. That was amazing. It's still
Hey, hey, Jake, and you mute his micro quick.
Yeah, yeah, I stand by that one. That is a beautiful movie. It's slow science fiction, like I like it. It's like a dressing like big, weird ideas versus ah, Starship Shootout, which can be fun. But I want to see Star Trek push the boundaries of my imagination, and it's not so much about like tactical combat.
I'm still offended that, as
you should be, we're all offended doing.
I'm doing a job. Well, in that case, I guess you're lucky because we are talking about a Star Trek movie today.
wrote quickly. Before we get started, I want to think everyone that listened to our first episode, we very much appreciate it. There was like, I think what? Only one of those was my wife. So all the rest were legitimate. Listens. More
of them. Yes, you know, I mean, like, she
she was obligated to listen, whereas other people worth. So, um, yeah, we're gonna talk about Star Trek of Minimum Nemesis, which was quote unquote. The movie that killed a franchise is what I read. Um,
so many things that killed starts, right? Well, yeah, Here's Star Trek stands.
Um, it's I watched this twice and, uh, I don't know, it's I like it because it is Star Trek and there's good parts in it, but and I mean, overall, the whole thing, I think, was just very weak. The plot. I mean, it just
it's It's Star Trek. Like TV. Star Trek is ah, more like cerebral. A movie is definitely more like action Star Trek
Dark action that we
know. Let's talk about that dune bug thing for a sec. I mean,
yeah, it's that gearhead. That was one of my favorite parts. It was we were five
solid five minutes. Scene of them just like fucking around in the desert. Yes,
because awesome. Patrick Stewart's a gear head and that's why
I love it.
Yeah, there's like some air B is where he's just like I love driving. More than anything, I'm always thinking about driving Bo Bloch driving. So like the thing that oppression I got about the movie was, it felt like it was like a party going on behind the scenes never were acting like they're normal Star Trek TV characters I'll have. And they're all this, like getting ready to fight and shoot guns and oh, my God, you have a car. You're like, You're like You're like, Yeah, well, you like Patrick Stewart. Why wouldn't we hook him out? But this is more watching the movie. It's just like
actually now. Now I like that scene because they know Patrick wanted it in there. So
Champ smile, he had a smiley has is totally genuine, like him. Like giggling stuff that
was going to say,
that's what I like about that scene. Is that like he's clearly enjoying himself, too. So I'm glad you told us that because, uh, Yeah, I was wondering about that. It was like that doesn't seem like a very Picard choice. But it's just because Patrick Stewart having a fucking blast
and like Argo is a company. I think that makes trucks or something like that. So I think there's, like, a duel like, Hey, we get some money from his company we could to make Patrick Sewer happy. And the fans, well, you know, they'll live through it.
That was awesome. Who doesn't want to drift a truck in the desert? Just go crazy.
Not me. If I have a hovercraft shuttle,
they have said enough. I feel
like I wouldn't die.
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff about that scene that didn't make sense and Yeah, well,
well, I mean, here's, uh yeah, I mean, if we want to jump right in because it's so I mean, if you think about that scene first off the whole before, like, um, you know what I mean? Like just like 00 hey. Yeah, Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. It's like, Oh, hey, we're gonna just happen to have one of data's, you know, brothers in different pieces all over this planet like it was just so blatantly kind of almost generic. All right, it's set up. Yeah.
The wrongness on this starts with, um, startling discovery. Levels of ruining how science fiction works in Star Trek because, like, they're, like, Still, like another piece of like of, like, off the galaxy altogether. Yet to get a signal of a positronic brain on a planet?
Yes. Exactly. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, there's no way they could pick that up. No, it was so, um, Eric? Yeah, I was so generically laid out. I mean, the thing is like again, Yeah, it's an action movie, and it's fun. But, I mean, just the the layout of it Was it just you know, it It didn't quite hit the mark for me. You know,
um, the writer of this movie also is like either a friend or fan of Brent Spiner. So that's why we got so much data. Well,
I I don't
I didn't mind
but people are people school, just like, yeah, this is like here the silliness and weirdness comes from
I got to say, though they did a good job casting because they have like, the same nose.
Yeah. I wasn't upset with the time Hardy casting. He was pretty good, I thought. OK, Data's
knows. I wasn't talking about four different.
They all look great. They'll take turns at conventions, so none of us know any better. 2nd 2nd brick Spinal was just dead on. Like, how do you do that? Yeah, I had no idea. Um, but no, it's, um it's funny. Like Celia, Tom Hardy has actually become one of my favorite actors. Like, he is really, really, really talented. And you could just see how he was so good as shins on. I mean, it was and that was like his his If I'm not mistaken, I was like, his big break, right? Yeah, it
was. I read on the on the Internet earlier, so it's obviously true, but he was his. It was his trade. He tried to make it his big break, and when it flopped, he kind of got really depressed and everything. And luckily, he turned that around, but yeah, it's ah, he we could blame Star Trek for Tom Hardy's early depression.
E feel like a lot of people could blame Star Trek for number skin after Nemesis. Yeah, We're going to get it. We're gonna get an email from CBS and every, like, please don't podcast about Star Trek any longer. Just stop helping
us with shins on. Ah, my problem with that was like, I
wonder it makes sense.
Yeah, that that. And like, I wonder if, Like, I misunderstand how budgets and movies could be used because, like, what I think would be more interesting is when they roll up to the Romulan empire, it feels like it should be a showdown with, Like, the Roman Empire would be kind of cool to see, like, the Federation versus Romney empire and see how that works out. But at the start of the movie, they wipe out the leadership of the Roman Empire. So we have a human instead of face. And I felt like that chemist.
Yeah, Okay. This there's some setup issues. Definitely. Like I the idea of having a captain Kurt. Captain,
this isn't about her. Mike. Mike. Yeah, we're all in trouble today.
I'm still upset about the T. O s thing that you just Okay, um, it was intelligent to do like a Captain Picard. A clone kind of plot because, like, you know, he's definitely gotten in the way of a lot of enemies. So, like, do you think there's something that they can replicate in there? But then the making a clone and then the clone ended up ending up in like a ream in prison so that they could just abuse it like, Why would they spend all of those resources to create that clone and then just dump it in a prison somewhere? That's stupid.
And this is not an actual clone war. It means that that was like a resource is in one shot for something special. And you're like, uh, bucket
wait, like 10
doing that and it's 123 is around here.
Yes. So as much as I appreciate the acting in the seams between Shins on and Picard and like the Yeah, and it's great acting, really. But I mean, you can't write and I see this in television, too, and it really bothers me. You can't write on entire plot just for specific character scenes.
Yeah, I agree about the performances because, like there was like this, Like, I hate the idea altogether. I'm sorry, but like when they were, like, facing off as actors. And you're just going hard. I was like, Okay, there, there into this. This is pretty good performance, if you know, I like the story, too.
If I like this,
I can't agree with Keith. I thought the the idea of the clone was I mean, the whole plot idea was not great, but, um, I read that Stuart, I think its directors, Stuart Baird, I think his name was like he didn't really have any Star Trek knowledge before doing this. And so he just kind of that could be why? You know, this movie was, like, not very good, because he just he just kind of came in and didn't know what he was doing. Basically,
yeah, I have strong despair towards how often people will say about a Star Trek movie. The person who came on, didn't know anything about Star Trek and didn't bother researching the Star Trek and didn't really enjoy researching doing Star Trek. Then why did you give them the job?
Has just said Then why were they there like that? Makes no sense at all. You know, if you can't
well, in the case of one particular person. I'm sure he was there for Star Wars interview. You got it. So congratulations to him. You know, uh, I'll point everybody. That interview that he did with Jon Stewart where he was like, I don't really like Star Trek, but And then he went on, And the job Stewart at the end was like, Sorry, I stopped listening when you said I don't like, start apologizing now. And I
will never forget him saying that to like he's like, Yeah, I've always more of a Star Wars guy like you, mother,
and you really like Star Wars. So, like it's possible to like both. Yes, if you're gonna have a job working on a movie from a franchise, make it from that franchise, Not the other franchise you like. Obvious what people would kill
for that job, but get him whether he wants a e.
I know we were talking about a different Star Trek movie, but sorry, just interject for it's like the Star Trek. The new Star Trek movie is with the with the jury room first, like I like watching as like popcorn entertainment, but it really feels like a Star Wars with like a Star Trek coat of paint on top.
I thought Star Trek Beyond was legit, like I felt that was.
Yeah, but that's the Star Trek Beyond was written by Simon Pegg, who actually does love start trying. So if you were wondering why beyond was good, it was because it was written by Simon Pay by Brilliance. Brilliant writer,
and Justin Lin is an amazing director.
Justin Lin is an amazing director. When he first got hired, I asked around about him and then we're like, Yes, have you seen fast and furious? And I was like, No, I'm very much not a fan of that franchise. Don't have
you seen community? Yeah,
of course. This way. Talk about some serious. The movie that he did a fast furious They're like That was the first movie word became about them being a family and I was like, Perfect! Then he will do start regret.
not tell me about it.
And the gun paintball gun episode of
Ah, that's a great one. He's a great action director, for sure.
Yeah, And then, like the ship, the last thing about Star Trek beyond is like the ship called the U. S s Franklin is named after his dad. Frank Lin. Yeah, yeah, I have it up in my living room. Elevation anyway, Back to Nemesis. Yes. Crappy starships. Um, I did not like the runaway. Do I like her? And that this was it called the Scimitar.
The entire was sweet, that it was pretty. That's one of my favorite ships in the start of these Gorgeous. That ship is such a badass ship, like it's so mean and just you look at it and it's just like it. Like even Picard says, it's a predator. I mean, you look at it and it's it is just beautiful.
Get out of bed.
I don't know, I got it in your bed,
but I would even by talking,
That's it. We're going to spend too many, I
guess, Like my problem with it would be more once again, like story wise, like, Hey, have you seen Star Trek before? It was like the Roman Empire has like a fleet. And like, where'd this one come from? You just got built. It it's like better than everybody's like, Yeah, If they dropped him to randomly versus like yeah, like these slaves on a prison moon built a ship that can take on the flagship of the federation
Well, not only that, but the Freemans. We hadn't seen the remains before this. Correct?
one. Yeah, I was about to ask you that. I think the remains That's the first time. The show. Right now
they have been spoken about. I think that they've been referenced, but I don't think they actually they had actually been introduced.
I got a really laugh about just I mean, obviously, Star Trek already is a bunch of different planets that have, like, human names, you know, like Romulus and Vulcan and stuff. But I always thought that the them having Rommie listen, then being like, you know Well, Raymond's was really fucking funny. Like, really three missing Romulus. Really? Really. Okay. All right. Yeah. If you
got Rami, let's got every Ms Like I forget who they were. They
to Rome or something,
right? Yeah, Exactly. Romeos and Remus were raised by a she wolf and they founded room. Okay, that's the story. Anyway, I was actually I was a couple of different stories from, like, similar cultures in that area, obviously. So you know, that's how it is with the Greeks and the Romans just stealing from each other
and remains look like works or No, no.
I like vampire
Nosferatu or something.
Yeah, exactly like the weird, squishy faced vampires.
So are they still like they saw in the galaxy like we ever
hear from ever again. And you know, the Rommie. Listen, remiss thing is really weird, because the Rommie lands are already like people who were Vulcans, Vulcans. And then we're like, Fuck you guys relieving, founding her own place. So where did the remains come from? Like how?
You're kind of a trick.
Wait, how long have we silicon race been in? Because look have happened. Is if you wanna play of science fiction? They go to another planet. If it's been, like, maybe 1000 years or more like they doesn't know Sim prisoners to the moon who evolved into a different kind of species.
Possibly. Yeah, I guess. Like Yeah. Okay. Okay. This is just a whole lot. I don't know. Listen. Australia has been separated for 200 years, and the stuff, the same language So in, like,
do they dio funny.
Hey, actually, Australian and cocky accents are still real close, so I don't know what you're talking about. Well,
I don't know what they're talking about.
So did you guys. We apologize to our Australian listeners. One of you that's down there. We're sorry.
I'm critical of Australians. Guys, I was just playing. I'm sorry
you couldn't Australians you can.
We love you all. We're really sorry about your p m. And you're fired.
Yeah. Um So what do you guys think about before in general? Um, like his interaction with data and everything like that. What were you thoughts on that hated it?
That's it. You just hate it
when you expand.
Sure. Yeah. I'll make sure that wasn't jumping in line. I'm sure someone else to go first. But for me, the reason why it was like, I don't like it when science fiction starts referencing itself too much. Kind of like how great? Yeah, like you got like, the prequels happen. And then you got the jet I where they're wearing like their Jedi robes, which you know there's no such thing. They're all dressing and acting like al Guinness who was on tattooing. So like we're out here in space and like, you have infinite options. And even if it was another android, like did have be another data, especially in there. Yeah. Then there's also counts out so that you don't have toe deal actual loss of data. So he just transferred to another one?
Yeah, I was just felt very contrived. And yeah, just I didn't enjoy it. I mean, I I didn't like how they how, uh, Brent Spiner portrayed before. I mean, I know he's like
like a prototype, but it was just kind of a little too silly, I thought,
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like the orange baby human. Well, it's kind of like I said earlier, it just it just came off his generic. I mean, the whole the whole that whole set up on the whole day was good. Well, even I mean before generic. But even the story itself, I mean, it's just it's just come the whole just story behind it all just seems super generic. Just it's only word I can think of, you know,
not to mention we've done this before and even way have a lower already.
And it was much much better,
man. The justice season time.
So you go ahead with it.
The first mirror episode, like, had that issue with, you know, the evil other self having to deal with Maybe his morality not being right. They could have done that so easily with chains on. And they just didn't, I guess
And remember like, there's like a Star Trek episode where, uh, they found his head in the past.
Yeah, that s
weird. Like aliens. They're just so outside humanity that you're like, Wow, what's happening here. But here we just get treated a clone and a Picard clothes. Let's
talk about that episode instead of this incident. Nemesis changing gears
kind. And it is the best.
Yeah, So I actually get frustrated a lot in movies when I find out that decisions about the story or the certain scenes or whatever weren't driven at all by the inception and creation of the story. But actually, just by like, outside sources, you know, like what the actors feel like doing It's one thing in an episodic show when you're like, we'll have these people play trombone because, you know, the actor already knows how to play trombone. That's fun. You're like taking pieces of the actor and putting into the character. But movies are so short, you know, they have to be about, like, the plot in the story itself. So, yeah, I'm glad Picard had fun in the dung buggy dune buggy, but it's kind of annoying that they made that scene just to make him happy. I get that I get that. Brent Spiner didn't wanna play data anymore because he was worried about the fact that he was aging and data wasn't supposed to, so they killed them. But then for the fans, they brought it back like,
Yeah, like they
create your story for the story.
I could see him going to step down. But, hey, don't create another exact one
and then they're doing it again for the Picard series, just like so. I guess they basically ignored what he wanted because he's popular and I get why it's popular. I love data is one of my faves, but, like, well, I'm sure Brent Spiner is happy to be doing it again. I'm
sure they gave him more money, so
But also I think they genuinely all like get along with each other.
Yeah, like a threesome, Right? Those pride, because was like, you have the opening where they just throw away all Star Trek cannon and just have just Worf there and not where he's supposed to be in frickin Wesley crusher a table. Shut up. Something happened,
which is great because it's in
the cosmos. And, like, between dimensions and he just no swelling
because it's a wedding he
wanted, You know, I stopped by to see
you stop by for the wedding. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Know what name to
start the other day. And I was like,
What's the point of being the traveler if you can't go travel to the wedding of the captain who helped bring you,
like all of a starkly changed like, Oh, my God. Where
have you been? What have you
seen? Chris was like, No, no, I have a wedding to go to him. Sorry.
You know? Well, you know, it's funny. Is it? For years I didn't even realize he was sitting there, and I dont Wesley No, I know and like, well eaten. First off, I love I love well eaten so much. He's such a cool person. Um, but I like I didn't even notice it. And then I was watching it for, you know, the podcast and I had to back up was like, What? Wait a minute. Did
I miss that
this whole time? Like, I must have noticed it when I was younger when it first came out, I guess. But I totally forgot he was there, so I literally had to, like, do a double take was like, Wait, Wesley,
is there no way?
Every time I see him, I give him the
stink eye like that. Use guys
like you for security. You could feel like this is making you about story.
Uh, I actually would have rather watch the whole movie with them just at the wedding and stuff. Then what we got with Shin's Ana?
The wedding scene was it was sweet. The speeches were
you could see they, like Jamie love each other,
and it definitely feels like the kind of scene that should be like the post post climax scene, like after everything is nice. And so it was an interesting choice to start with that
well this way. Like they have the story. Excuse first not see them making. That was like the next stop,
like Diana wedding. I
can't wait to see you naked, dwarf. Look, I'm I
order you to be naked. I think you like
why this orphan never attended. That is
in the way, way. But s O. I mean, yes, like we all This isn't our favorite trek movie, right? There are a lot of there's a lot of bad on and the acting, you know, the core group is has always been tight, like their type, their clothes their tight. See that? But, I mean, there was There's Ron Perlman playing his the, you know, the first officer owns on. I mean, that was his good. He knew that he was amazing. And I mean, they're so his character and then the whole, Like I mean, let's let's not, you know, hopefully no trigger warnings, but the whole, like mental rape scene. I mean, like, like that that first stuff that was ridiculous, right? Like that was absolutely ridiculous. But second off like to take his character, who is probably the one non him and Tom Hardy. The as faras non trek characters go, um, he was like they were. Their interactions were probably my favorite. Because, you know, Ron Perlman's amazing Tom Hardy wasn't and then tow Have him do that scene is just It just diminished the whole thing. I'm like, Was that really necessary? I mean, I understand. I understand. For the further I understand for a story, but it was really unnecessary, you know? Yeah.
Don't worry. I have plenty to say about unnecessary rape of any kind in TVs and movies.
Yeah, and start with also unnecessary to see, like, Reicher and, uh, and Troy and bed together. I don't need to see that. I'm sorry. I think that kind came in. She was just kind of gross. Too much.
Yeah, we know that. We know they're banging. You get
when I'm like, I hadn't seen e. I didn't
see Nemesis and forever. And so I forgot that that mind attack scene was in there, and it was just when I saw it. You know, when I watched it a few weeks ago, I was like, Wow, that just does not fit in Star Trek. I mean, I just don't know. It seemed like it came out of nowhere to me.
It was funny. I was, like, posting about, like, how grossed out. I was head Reicher in Troy, and then it turns into the rapes, and I
worse like you. I don't think this is
necessary at all in the area.
This is very depressing. So let me go back Thio actors that stood out in that movie, that lady that, um, the I think she's wrong. Mulan. Yeah. So she goes to Tom Hardy and tries to, like, seduce her way in, and then he, like, totally rejects us. They're like, Well, fuck it, I'm gonna go. How does the the ah federation people now, her acting was good, but she only got those two scenes, like, basically, it didn't really make it like, since that's ah, that's a big change to be like I will try to be on your side. You reject me, All right? I will destroy
about Commander Sinatra. That was played by Dina Meyer. She So you know her from, like, Starship Starship Troopers and a bunch of other stuff like she's been in. All right? Yeah, she's like she's absolutely demonic. Yeah,
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. I liked what I saw on screen. Like when she likes said, Hey, Pat. Captain Kirk Picard. Do you mind if I kick his ass
with you? I'm like, Oh, my God. Yeah, do it.
think she got knocked out of the fight. Uh, yeah, she was pretty cool. But then she's kinda Yeah, I'm glad I didn't kill her. I was gonna get so mad. It's like
it definitely feels like they used our mortar, like, kind of explain what was going on with the different characters. Like, t explain us. The thing about Shin's own rather than her being somebody. If that means
I wanted to give a quick shout out to Captain Janeway like seeing her or Sorry, Adam. Admiral, My mistake.
I'm glad that they brought her in to do it. Came all grew. Obviously. I'm released. I was a fan of hers. I've heard she's been saying if he stuff lately, but forgetting that, um, as an actress, definitely. Like, I really admire her. I really like how she, uh, put her foot down regarding like, Janeway is the captain. She shoe. She will not have an affair with somebody on her ship. She knows, you know, responsibility. and I love, um, and I understand that they wanted to do a cameo that would make all the fans be like. But seriously, how did Jane we get and roll faster than the car?
Well, I think the card could have gotten Admiral, but I think he wanted to stay right where you wanted to stay on the Enterprise, right? I mean, that's
that's very that's That's very Kirk, though. I mean, they already did that with Kirk being like he made admiral, and then he was like, I want to go back to Cabot
cards cooler. So it kind of, you know,
he never even what? It's where because Bacar tries to talk Reicher out of doing the stays on enterprise thing. But then he ends up doing the same thing himself. I don't know if I believe it. We'll hear
Reicher actually passes that promotion to stay under Picard, so that's
what you want to talk about
it. I mean, it's just it's they do that kind of over and over and over, you know? Yeah.
But then the pilot record gets his own ship, the USS Titan, which is my ship of choice in Star Trek. Okay. My spectral night.
Yeah, I don't I don't actually use federation ships. Planes Thio. Nice.
You strike me as a Romulan.
My brain ship is so dope. Bring trails. I have a Breen ship. It was from a Christmas event a couple of years ago, and it has a nice power so I can slow down the other ships. Sees you. Don't shoot at him.
This is not a Star Trek online podcast disclaimer. Yeah, Not yet.
So where does this one? Where does this one like rank in your list of Trek films? I know it's not up at the top. Where is this? Like your least favorite. Or what do you guys think?
I'm actually not a big fan of motion picture, so she's never gonna e I can't get over the like sex with sex with the ship thing. What's what's wrong with that is a beautiful thing. They love each other. Okay, I'm gonna say like, middle low. It's not as unintelligible to me. His interest covered country.
Really? You don't like that one?
I think I discovered countries from to watch for, like, fluff. Okay, but I tried to show it to a friend of mine, and he was like, I don't understand. What? Wait,
wait, wait, wait. Wait a second. Undiscovered countries is in the top three, If not sometimes number one Keith
keep likes Fluffy.
I love you, Kate. I
like strategy. I like Shakespeare and, like, philosophy and shackle mysteries
thing. I don't like this.
I think maybe I like being
s. So I imagine
that's fair. Don't
actually say so. This is probably in the, like, lower quarter of my favorite Star Trek movies. And and that's just because there are a few on their like. And my wife and I always joke about this about how how weak it was, how Kirk died in generations. Yeah, that's oh, like fucked. Like a dies, too. To a set of stairs or t you say, Like Thio. Like about a metal rail, you know to be Leslie. No rocket falls like Kirk. The most bad ass like starship. Yeah, Captain. Ever until, you know, TNG year went not, but I mean, he gets the shit
kicked out of him by an eight year old man and throwing off a week what
it was like that that is not sure. great time. I'm like, That is not that is not how Kirk goes out. And I remember, actually, when I was a kid, I went inside full. It was it was a team that I was a teenager mad, and I went sat in the theater and then and it was one ending. And then they change the ending after I had already seen it like, yeah, there, there, there were two endings and they actually changed the ending. Um, what was it? They think it's in the butt in the theater. Showed the original ending. And then I guess they got a lot of flack and there was a different ending or something like that. I remember in the theatre I saw it differently than what's on the blue ray that I have.
Remember what it was or what The change
that right now, I'm gonna look it up, though, because it drove me crazy. And now now it's gonna drive me crazy because I can't remember what it was. I think
you're lying to us. Oh, really?
Well, if you want different endings, let's watch close.
So when it comes to my my, uh, my arrangement of movies all the O G Star Trek movies I think are good, including number five. Really? Yeah, I said it. Yeah, I'm weird. Person like that. We wish it over. How much? I liked shooting God in the face because
you don't like to us.
Which one? T o. The movies are really good to me. I'm in, like, the next year. Inch movies. I don't consider Cannon. I don't like what they did there. Really? I don't. Yeah, I don't see Kurt died by falling off a bridge.
Generations in the days. Both.
What about what about first contact?
First Contact is good, but once again, like, I don't want to see Star Trek reference itself too much. Like I know the work is awesome, but I don't need a movie about him. Like what? I wanted to see them go to the edge of the galaxy. To me, what I think of Star Trek movie should be is
it's something real
in its crystal form. Christopher known hard scifi like Blore. Mind
I'd be down for that?
Yeah, not action reference,
so I think sorry. Going back. I looked it up in the original in the original ending. That was originally shot. Curt got shot in the back. That's
not much better.
No, it's not. And that's actually And it tested badly. I So
they went from shoot him to the back to let a bridge phone that's was there. Improving?
I mean, his story starts with him being like, I'd rather live in this little log cabin with my horses. Then be Captain. It doesn't make sense in this place, but But again,
I'm sorry. Back Teoh, right? It's like,
what episode is this? Where we're going?
So I guess we have agreed that generations is below
that. That's kind of how I feel, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll say that, but yeah. So the nemesis is a little bit above that for me.
I okay. I did like how generations had a concept of, like, weird time dilation field's. But that's about all I liked about it.
I liked, uh, I got to see that. Yeah, E I like seeing their prize deep. Wait, They killed the enterprise D in there. Um what is their man? Yeah, I got nothing for generations as you're not in community.
Wait. And that's the one where data gets scared and can't confront Malcolm McDowell's character because his emotions, like when him and George you're inside. It was like
I can I Thank you.
I don't remember that. Okay,
let me started on the emotion
show. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. I said I have a note about the emotion Trip ruins date.
I love data, but I have emotions.
It is Well, they spent seven years being like, Okay, Data's goal is to develop emotions, and they're like, I will just give it to one a chip, and then we'll have his brother kind of like, use it as a drug. Or maybe not. I mean, or maybe it'll do this other thing Also, the Borg queen is gonna try to control him with it. Also, like, uh,
yeah, I like data because he's not human. Like he was the the the spot extra, um, point of view that other humans couldn't do That doesn't make him interesting. So if you have to make him a goofy dude, it's just like, Oh, now your guy. Yeah. All right. Yeah. And they always so don't even uses, like, heightened physical strength and dexterity because, like, there's this part in a movie where Picard goes, Dana, go open the door holding often It's Picard wielding two guns and wailing on Do you data's fast enough that he could actually just wiped out everybody on his own.
Also Picard whaling on Dad's. Really?
Yeah, it was
funny, but once again, like I saw, like Patrick Stewart was having time, his life and like, I was like, All right, all right, but
yeah, but the movie sucked. It's
like I'm glad the actress having a good time, but you've kind of assassinated the actual character. But fine.
Now I have a question. How does this like Esso Cause? Because this podcast is is about the new Picard's stuck heart card. So how does like, what's your roles taken on this being the last time we've seen Picard before this new Siri's like, How does how does the gap look to you? Like what? What? From where he ended that movie toe where he's starting here like, what's your else take on that?
I mean, there was there was some mission that he did that kind of drove him out of Starfleet, made him want to leave, and we're not sure what that was. Um, there's, um there's, like, a couple comics that they put out. That I pretty sure they say is cannon. Um, but
I've been driving clearly. I haven't read any of that stuff.
It's It's secondary cannon, you guys.
Yeah, but that that being said, actually, that's what I was gonna bring up those the fall of Romulus Rommie, Let's being basically exploded. I mean, that's the whole tipping point of the Kelvin timeline. But in this timeline, that could very well, cause if you recall, he and, um spoke were really, really, really big and tryingto to reunify ramya winds and falcons, right? Yeah. So I It might just, you know, it's the fan boy and me, I'm like, Okay, well, it's gotta have something to do with reunification. And with ramya list basically being gone and the Romeo in people being wiped out obliterated, you know, I mean, yes, when it's
it's the raw Mulan's that air in Picard's Star Trek Picard that air messing around with the board, Grace. So
yeah, way we know they're bored. We know they're like Romulans, obviously, but I've purposely tried not to look at any spoilers, obviously, you know, spoiler,
you know, you know I have. You gonna watch the trailer? So, um,
I've been doing past research like those videos about the comics and remembering all women. Uh, yeah. Like I said, I don't know what happened. I know he gets a new ship called the Verity. Yeah, Um, yeah, like I don't I don't see. I don't expect him to connect too much from, like, nemesis to Picard.
In fact, I wonder if they're gonna just kind of ignore that it happened.
Hopefully, your life. I
mean, I'm sure they like the will. Keep that, You know, the wedding happened.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean more and more than anything, it's it's, you know, do you think like, part of me wonders that whole experience with Shen's on Was that a tipping point? You know, like like I'm hoping that that it brings some kind of timeline continuity to what we've seen 20 years ago in what we're seeing now You're not I mean, like, there's got to be some kind of back story which I'm really, really excited to hear and see when they introduce the show. Um, because there's just, you know, in my mind, and I think in a lot of our minds. People listening, all of us. Picard has lived this whole 20 years like Picard is a person. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, Yes, Patrick Stewart plays that card. But Picard is our captain. You know, say him like like for last 20 years
is not a person. In the
last 20 years, I want to know what Picard has been doing. I want to know from you after nemesis, to to this show. Like you know
what you talking about. He's been making.
I know. Exactly. E just I
am. I'm cynical. I'm cynical. Have a bad feeling about everything about this. I've been like, like, like Look,
I'm with you. I'm with you, Keith.
like looking at the
back. The business end of it, way too much. I get a kick out of it. And there's a reason why I discover it looks just like this contracts to make it so that you can't be too normal. Star Trek. Really Something changed recently? Well, CBS and Viacom. Discovery. Yeah. Yeah. So that might change. As of that moment, we might start getting things that
like well, Star Trek. Maybe McCartney think, Yeah,
well, here's Here's the thing is is the way that I read it? Because I actually I'm really excited about the merger as well, because the way that I heard it was CBS owned the rights to the TV show Stuff and Viacom on the rights of the movies, and they could not coexist in the same universe. Do you see? I'm saying that's why we have a Kelvin Timeline. But now they can't exist in the same universe. So that means that then and this is, you know, we're gonna kind of jump jump brands here, which I believe Keith did earlier by accident. But we're in a tux. Star Wars and Star Trek. Right? So recently the head guy at Disney said, We're not opposed to TV shows turning into movies or movies turning into TV shows, right? And that's a pretty cool thing when when the studio has the ability to to take these characters that we love in these stories that we love and expand on them without those limitations, you know what I'm saying? So the merger with Viacom and CBS I am so excited
about, Yeah, I agree
We're definitely in a new world of, um, having expanded universe stuff, not just be like the movies of the TV show of the main thing. And then we can write like books on the side or comics on the side. And it's like, you know, some of the stuff starts with comics and then becomes TV shows and then becomes movies. And everything is just like expanded universe Marvel, expanding university see Expanded River Star Wars And obviously like if you have a franchise like Star Trek, you're gonna try to do stuff like that, too, even though starts at first. But I think he knows how to do it for money.
Thing might want to watch out for is that they started making a show in the era and ecosystem before the merger. So we're still going. Yeah, those things, then, also like like jump franchise or anything. But because of Star Wars, where I felt was, it was it was really bad for me. I hate that on
I had TVs, the movies, the latest ones I had. I went through like a little journey the last several years of, like rediscovering fiction and why different fiction is different, Um, you and like, why older stuff to me is way better. And it's because back then you have Star Trek created by a guy who made his life that, like his science fiction, And then they all were all in, and they didn't have its main things to distract them versus now where there's a lot of corporate, um, dealings and how to create science fiction, which, yes, yes more. Brandon's story.
Yeah, I definitely agree. And while we're talking about Star Wars, um, part of the things that I noticed in Amando not to give any spoilers about scenes that happened. But there are certain scenes that are clearly written because of fandom and meta stuff like that, like I know why it exists. But it really frustrates me because it feels like you're paying more attention to how how to make the audience giggle and create, you know, viral stuff based on your show and less about what the show itself is saying and doing. And I'm very concerned that that's gonna happen with Picard like are the bringing in seven of nine because of their cool Bork storyline or because they know we like Jerry, right? Are they bringing in the other members of the Enterprise? Because Picard needs, uh, like is Marina sort. It's gonna show up because Picard needs somebody that he can trust to understand his emotions and to rely on Or is she only there? Because we want marina surface to be there? Exactly. And that drives me crazy. And that's why I and I'm sure, Keith Also, I'm very nervous about the card.
Like the ship he's
on looks like it's the firefly. Hey, Well, that's not McCarty, who he should be in a beautiful, regal ship that, like you, you buy my mind from Apple or something. It's good.
Yeah, very ship design is what makes me concerned that they were going to be like, Yeah, Picard is dark Picard now, and the whole world is dark around him. And I'm like you telling me that the federation that spans, like all of these planets that is allied with poking that it's somehow allied even with Franken, are like, What's going on there? You're telling me that they've all suddenly, like, lost all of their money and now older ships with dinky? I don't think so.
uh oh. You know, as I say, a prayer to run Barry every day that it's not gonna suck. Absolutely.
I'm just Yeah, not a fan of Kurtzman. So he makes me very
Yeah, um, yeah, my fingers across like I would love for them to slap me in the face and prove me wrong. And I go, Oh, my God, He did you You did a great job like, uh, like Stargate eventually did to me. And
thank you. I'm glad
I love being one over and so, like, I'm always open to it. But like, I'm cautious after the what I saw happen with Star Trek Discovery and like, the new Star Wars nearly brand blow via.
But I admit for safety, I have a tendency to assume things will be will make me sad so that when they don't make me side, I feel happy rather than just being like neutral eso I'm probably being like particularly Ah, it's not gonna be good, but I hope it's really good. I'm gonna lowball it for now so that I don't cry
for me. It helps to make, like, see these things as different timelines so I can keep my good stuff and maybe give a chance to other stuff in there near where they're weird. Universe.
Well, you guys know me like I I'm all about the entertainment and you know it If, uh if it's visually good, if the story's good, even if they're aspects that I don't care for, you know, I'm I'm that guy. That's like, Okay, I'll find the good in it, You know what I mean? That's and that one's for me. I learned then that, yes,
I admire it. And
that's why they're there, things about discovery that I really, really enjoy. So, I mean, you know, I'm I'm that guy that can kind of pick the good out of a bad situation if I need to. You know, I mean, I would prefer to not have to, but if But if that's what it is, you know, So I mean, I know And you all know, Heath, you're you're just getting to know me. But, you know, I I'm gonna like Picard. There's going to be something about the car that I like just because that's just how I'm built. But I will be honest about the things that bug me if there is anything you know,
good, because otherwise
video. Yeah, any any, like hate
I ever give boring kind of roasting is never to put anyone else's anyone else's opinion down like I like. I like people that, like, if I say I don't like something never too
save somebody else shouldn't like
Go for what? You That's what I Absolutely
I hope everyone enjoys it.
I don't, I hope someone else because
you're like I know what I mean. What could possibly oh, possibly go? It's okay. I don't like him, but I know J will. So it's fine as long as J is happy. It's okay. Exactly.
No genuine. I'm gonna get stories,
writing credits and, like Gene Roddenberry, right, wrote Tandy episodes. It's on IMDb. What's For some reason, they say that Gene Roddenberry run rotated the card episodes.
Well, that's clearly not,
I mean, unless he's not dead. No, there's They might just might have to spend on there because he's Gene Roddenberry, you know? Or at the time loop. Oh, shit. My God,
or he just has this story credit.
Yeah, well, I mean, they have They had a lot of stuff written that didn't go toe film. You know what I mean? Like like these sacred be pulling from older stories that had been written that had never been used. I mean, I was watching that.
Do you think they used some of those? Like Syria's two to us? But
I don't know.
We'll see if, like the Gorn shows up or something. Um,
all right. Do we have any final thoughts on Star Trek nemesis before we wrap up here?
I thought the starship would be named nemesis, not Scimitar.
That would been cool. You
know, it's because Shin San's is a nemesis. Oh, it is on the nose
a little. A little harder for this for this movie, so yeah, e don't
even call that guy. You know Picard Gemesis isn't his nemesis. Que
No, no cute guys. His boyfriend, his lover. I mean, let's let's Let's be Oh, stop boyfriend. Okay,
since we brought up Q, I just have to give you guys my pet theory that true Elaine is related truly is a cute right.
It's a trillion.
Oh, um, there's a tus episode where there's this dude cultural lane that, like teleports everybody to this island and that he can control them. And you just has magic powers. And then the episode ends with two, like, Davy voices popping up on being like Put your toys away. Now it is time for you to go to sleep. And I'm 100% convinced that Q was based on true Elaine. And he's just like Tre Lena's in adults. And that is the parent.
like, stop messing with the human. So it
sounds. Sounds right. Yeah.
I would like to believe this.
Really? Thank you. I just I just wanted
Thio way have spoken. It is now. It is now Canada, right? Um
I mean, Nemesis might pop up in Picard in regards to the you know, Picard being there, right about when the raw Meulens got wiped out. Because, I mean, in the last 20 years, I'm sure the Romans have done their best to rebuild, but, um okay, so Star Trek 2009 is the beginning of it. The part with the spark is considered part of the prime universes in an S T. O. So we know eventually, Rommie lands were gonna blow themselves up. There was a suggestion that it was because of the experiments that the Romans were doing. They blew themselves up. So my hope is that they'll tie it in by having it be like, you know, the regulars were messing around, and then they created the shenanigans with the remans and shins on blew them up and in in an attempt to get back to their former power as quickly as possible because they don't want to get, you know, destroyed by the federation and the Klingons just being like, Well, the Romulan empire is part of our emperor now, even though I know that's not how the federation works, that doesn't mean the Romulans don't believe that they would do it. Um, Then, in their effort to rebuild as quickly as possible, they end up blowing themselves up. And then Picard feels like vaguely like it's his fault because he didn't do what she sounded. But Shins on existed because he existed. So that might be interesting. But do I trust him to do that? Probably
not, because that's a really good
and it seems like a stretch. Yeah, I mean, that seems like a stretch.
Can I write for start directing Yes.
I want to see them pulling the Star Trek online stuff where, after Ron, let's blow up. We get the Roman star empire where they're, like this little nomadic space race of, like, you know, giant space stations and throwing.
Oh, my God, that would be so cool. And then
that's where the big
bird has dealt with the Romney. Exactly. Uh, yeah, because then, like, you would have Picard who had already dealt with the Romney. Listen, he quit because of what happened with the Romulus star. And then the star empire is floating around and they're like, we need you, Thio, do some diplomacy, please. And he's like, Seriously, you guys remember what happened last
time? I hope they do. So, um, science fiction, Star Trek, World building and start trick. Um, wielding of brand, their God
bless you, I
And again, that's why it won't happen. Is because it's what it should. It should have.
we're all cynics Except Jay.
I hope Jay's right.
Yeah, me too. All right. On that note. Is there anything else? Uh, we have to say about nemesis. I give it an F minus. Personally, there
I give it it I'll give it a D minus. At least like visually, it looks like start
running. That's true. I'll give it.
I give it a
go ahead, keep.
I'll give it a think
short, guys. Partition. It was good seeing
good seeing I actually, I'm getting given a full D just because just because it introduced me to Tom Hardy, who I'm a huge fan of now, I mean, that there were aspects of the film that I did not hate. So I can't in good conscience, given f a d minus has already been taken, so I'm giving it a D. Actually, I'm
gonna upgrade mine Two and 1/2. Okay. Thank you. So
it didn't super family. Just
just failed. Didn't feel twice.
Yeah, I'll say solid.
Very cool. Yeah. All right. All right. We're
gonna give it a cell. A D
Oh, yeah. Okay. On that D
for yes. On that note. Enterprise D. Thanks. Thanks for everybody. For tuning in. You can find us online at therefore host dot com. Also, you can follow us on twitter at twitter dot com slash four hosts until next time. We will see you later.
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